[kdewebdev-site] Drupal review

[Jacob Caudill]

On Friday 20 April 2007 01:40:25 pm Andras Mantia wrote:
> Hi,
>
>  I did a "review" of Drupal, meaning that I played with it, tried to do
> the same things like what we have on the current site. I found some
> things that I couldn't do yet, but this might be also my lack of
> knowledge. As I saw there is also a Drupal API that I didn't explore as
> well that it is possible to access directly the database to do things
> that are not in the API. I didn't explore how to write modules or
> themes either.
>  What I don't like is:
> 1) slow workflow when building the site. The fact that I have to use a
> web interfaces and work through the net doesn't really satisfy me. I
> like the quick preview in Quanta, even through a local server.

The only way I could see this working is to have the site template setup in 
quanta and then write your html content into the template, using quanta to 
preview. Once it is as you like it, you can then paste it into the drupal web 
form.

> 2) I don't know if it is possible to have a local Drupal installation
> for developing and when you're done publish the result to the real
> site. If such a setup can be used, that would somewhat make developing
> faster.

Drupal is VERY well thought out and they provide a very cool feature making 
switching between different server environments pain-less. See this: 
http://drupal.org/node/53705

> 3) I dislike the webform to enter the texts. I heard that there are some
> editor that can be used for them (I assume they are Java based or
> something like that), but I doubt it would offer even similar features
> to what katepart offers (not talking about what Quanta adds on top of
> the katepart).

There are several javascript based editors, these things often annoy me and 
rewrite my code, but I have a lot of experience fighting these things so I 
can tell you how to set it up to leave your code the hell alone. Not sure 
what you were referring to with katepart unless you mean code completion etc.  
if so, then you could certainly write the content in quanta and the paste 
into the webform

> 4) Probably mass-changing of the pages (e.g. changing links there) can
> be painful, because the pages are stored in a database (no file
> search&replace).

if they are reused a lot on the site then they should be created as blocks. if 
you mean links in the general content then yes this is a valid drawback to 
storing content in a DB, but a small gripe relative to the value add a db 
brings.

> 5) I didn't investigate the possibility to have real subsites
> (kdewebdev.org, quanta.kdewebdev.org, kommander.kdewebdev.org etc.)
> pointing to the same drupal installation. If it is not possible, I
> think we can forget about it...

This is certainly possible, each site can make use of its own modules and 
versions, or all work off the same modules, whatever you need.(see the link 
above about /sites)

> What I like is that it offers the possibility to gather site maintainers
> who don't have too much PHP knowledge (for adding tutorials, faqs,
> articles about Quanta) and without the need to create a full account on
> the server. I also like the possibility to change the look of the site
> without touching the core of it, by writing a new theme. Of course, it
> is possible also now with some CSS, but the layout would be more or
> less the same anyway.
>  I also liked the fact that I could insert my own PHP pages easily into
> the Drupal framework.

Yes, php can be created and saved as blocks for use anywhere on the site. The 
process of adding blocks is very simple and you can use many forms of 
template engines, php template engine, smarty, etc.

> So there are several possibilities how to go on:
> 1) use Drupal for everything, but for the pages requiring too much
> logic, use external PHP files (and just include in Drupal). These files
> (and possibly our own themes and possible modules) would be stored in
> subversion and Quanta can be used to develop them. Quanta could suffer
> some additions in the feature regarding the preview: insert the edited
> document in a "preview template" before previewing. This could be used
> to get a preview that is close (or same) as the final page in Drupal if
> it is possible to extract the CSS and the code that Drupal puts around
> the pages. Other idea (it just came to my mind) could be that the text
> is put directly in a database in the local Drupal installation and the
> preview would show the page directly inside Drupal. As a first approach
> (either of) this preview can be implemented through an external script.

> 2) use our own code in general, but use Drupal for some functionality
> (blog, forum, articles, maybe FAQs).
>
> 3) use our own code and install specific extra applications if needed
> (forum, blogs, etc.)
>
> I don't think #2 is a good idea, in that case probably #3 is better.
> #1 is possible only if #5 from the problem list can be solved!
>
> So what do others think we should go on?

i say go with #1 if at all possible. And to determine that, one has to figure 
out exactly what functionality you want or may want in the future, and try to 
have a pretty good idea of how that would be achieved w/ drupal. I think I 
addressed all of the concerns you brought up, but I am sure there are many 
things still to cover.

Maybe try to schedule an IRC meeting where we can all brainstorm about it in 
real time and figure out exactly what the sites need to do, then make sure 
drupal can handle all of their needs gracefully.

> Once we decide on this issue, we could go on and decide who will work on
> the code. Actually this is relatively easy from my point of view. I do
> not want (myself) to create a new framework, nor to write a Drupal
> theme as I don't have time for it. So it all comes down to either
> contributor offers (read, the one who codes decides), be it a
> contributor who does this for fun or Carlos' company. As I understand
> Carlos has Drupal experience, so probably they can create a theme and
> do the things as it should be, not as I figured out how to do. :)
> I think even in the case its done by Neurotic, we could have a good use
> of other contributors as well, as the kdewebdev specific development
> should happen on our server in an open way.
>
> So this is about my experience and ideas of Drupal. The test
> installation is at http://www.kdewebdev.org/~jens/drupal/quanta  for
> those who are interested in seeing it.
>
> Andras

Andras, you will likely remember me, we spoke a year or so ago about a bug and 
I was going to send you suse 10.1cs but it turned out 10.1 was a horrible 
release. Let me know if you need 10.2(it is a very nice release).

I have a decent understanding of how drupal works and what it is capable of. I 
have spent time with their user community and I can say that it is a 
wonderful community with very passionate and helpful users. The documentation 
on the site are fantastic and the amount of contributors is quiet impressive.

I would be glad to try and answer any more questions you might have about 
using drupal, theming it, etc.

-- 
Have a great day!
Jacob Caudill
www.SpinInk.net